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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
March rabbit
player corp n1
521
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Posted - 2013.02.11 04:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Charles the Miner wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:A new and exciting gripe about Miners. It really does feel like it's personal by now 
thread started by goon. they have requirements of membership.
Looks like one of those is clear: member HAVE TO make bad threads on forums about miners  |
March rabbit
player corp n1
521
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Posted - 2013.02.11 04:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
The problem is that, with no effort whatsoever by the miner, they are unprofitable to gank (and thus unlikely to be ganked). Unlike any other fitted T2 ship (fit with guns, damage mods, no tank, just like the average Mack).
i've seen somewhere on the forum quote from developer: "miners never intended to be profitable at ganking".
So i guess your problem doesn't exist.
Have fun
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March rabbit
player corp n1
521
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 05:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
Those are the points I don't agree with. The profitability of ganking was tied to the market just the same as the profitability of mining. Granted you shouldn't be making a profit off of ganking completely unfitted hulls, the income amount of that activity should be tied to RNG. In that situation sometimes you will win and sometimes you will lose. The ganking of people that chose to go for yield at expense of tank should be profitable though. The person decided to risk it all for the maximum reward part of maximizing the risk should be that you can be profitably ganked if you are not playing smart. How profitable is arbitrary and I'm not going to argue numbers.
We can extend this idea to mission runners/ratters/T2 fit combat ships. The dude who active tanks their faction or officer mission running/ratting tengu is in the same boat as the max yield miner. They have virtually no tank without activating his hardeners so if caught unaware they're going to die. They both maxed their reward but also maximized their risk.
We can extend your idea to suicide gankers. The dude who dedicates all the fitting for max DPS and puts 1 round of ammo into each gun....
His maximized his reward but also maximized his risk.
EWAR/tank/whatever? NOPE
Do they profitable to gank? Not sure.
Result: your idea can't be applied to every situation. |
March rabbit
player corp n1
521
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 05:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:March rabbit wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Those are the points I don't agree with. The profitability of ganking was tied to the market just the same as the profitability of mining. Granted you shouldn't be making a profit off of ganking completely unfitted hulls, the income amount of that activity should be tied to RNG. In that situation sometimes you will win and sometimes you will lose. The ganking of people that chose to go for yield at expense of tank should be profitable though. The person decided to risk it all for the maximum reward part of maximizing the risk should be that you can be profitably ganked if you are not playing smart. How profitable is arbitrary and I'm not going to argue numbers.
We can extend this idea to mission runners/ratters/T2 fit combat ships. The dude who active tanks their faction or officer mission running/ratting tengu is in the same boat as the max yield miner. They have virtually no tank without activating his hardeners so if caught unaware they're going to die. They both maxed their reward but also maximized their risk.
We can extend your idea to suicide gankers. The dude who dedicates all the fitting for max DPS and puts 1 round of ammo into each gun.... His maximized his reward but also maximized his risk. EWAR/tank/whatever? NOPE Do they profitable to gank? Not sure. Result: your idea can't be applied to every situation. Suicide ganking a Tier 3 BC is profitable.
you mean suicide ganker is in tier 3?
OK. But mostg of gankers use T1 fitted Catalysts
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March rabbit
player corp n1
521
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 08:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:March rabbit wrote:
We can extend your idea to suicide gankers. The dude who dedicates all the fitting for max DPS and puts 1 round of ammo into each gun....
His maximized his reward but also maximized his risk.
EWAR/tank/whatever? NOPE
Do they profitable to gank? Not sure.
Result: your idea can't be applied to every situation.
EWAR would have worked great to disrupt gankers. So would a 650mm Nado (takes 2 volleys just like 800s, but better tracking and higher ROF). The Suicide Ganker maximised his risk by fitting no ECCM or Tank. Everybody knew that they fit no ECCM or Tank, and the GCC mechanics mean that the defender (with ECM or DPS) doesn't need to worry about losing their ship. ECM Drones would commonly keep an awake Hulk pilot from being blown up. In addition, the Suicide Ganker has a guaranteed loss of his ship, meaning that a bad loot drop can easily make a gank unprofitable even if everything else went perfectly.
it's all OK but you didn't answer to my question.
Miner: fits for max REWARD, min TANK. Should be profitable to suicide gank? You say: YES.
Suicide ganker: fits for max REWARD (DPS), no TANK. Should it be be profitable to suicide gank?
You right, ganker loses his ship anyway. But this is outside of question about Eve Online fitting ideology "trade off". Either we use this ideology or not.
You accuse miners for ignoring it. But we have suicide gankers who does not have such "trade offs".
At the end i don't think we should point fingers to miners for ignoring "fitting trade offs" unless whole suicide ganking works outside of this ideology (which is THE MAIN fitting ideology of Eve Online) |
March rabbit
player corp n1
521
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 08:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
Let's apply it to this situation. Assume a T2 fit catalyst, it has:
...
3,848 EHP and 600~ dps. This is my fit I used for ganking so your mileage may vary.
It's fit for all gank and no tank, you could probably alpha it with a rupture if you wanted to.
that's interesting because all ganker wrecks i've seen contained T1 modules only. However i can agree: should you use T2 modules it can be profitable to gank you.
La Nariz wrote:
Remember the suicide ganker's risk is not "will the ship survive" it's "what will drop." Should you gank the above you most certainly could profit off of it.
i will just repeat: question was "fitting trade offs" and "fit without tank should be profitable to gank". It's not about victim losses or ganking "risks". It is only about drop. Miners gankers have drop from T2 modules + T2 ship (these days it is T1 ships). And if you gank suicide ganker you will get drop from T1 ship + (mostly) T1 modules. |
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